How to Pinpoint Where Your Podcast Performance Is Breaking Down

The hardest part about growing a podcast isn't knowing what to do next. It's knowing what to fix first.

That's why so many hosts spend months chasing better titles, stronger SEO, bigger guests, or more content. Every one of those could be the right answer. Every one of them could also waste the next six months of your life. 

In this episode, I'll show you how to pinpoint exactly where your podcast performance is breaking down right now, so you can go from hoping your podcast grows to engineering growth you can predict. Hit play and let’s dive in.

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0:02 – How to Pinpoint Where Your Podcast Performance Is Breaking Down

5:59 – Why Most Podcast Audits Diagnose the Wrong Problem

9:52 – Symptom-Based vs. Systems-Based Thinking

18:53 – The 5 Systems Behind Every High-Performing Podcast

23:46 – What to Fix First on Your Show to Create Predictable Growth

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Episode Links:

Get Your Podcast Health Score® →

See the PodLaunch Performance Model™

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Other Episodes You’ll Love: 

This Changes Everything We Know About Growing a Podcast

What Your Podcast Metrics Aren't Telling You

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Transcript

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SPEAKER_00 0:02

If you're listening to this right now, and you're someone who knows your podcast should be performing better than it is, and you've invested time and money and effort into your show and you have published dozens or even hundreds of episodes, and you're still asking, why is this not growing? Then the question that you need to ask next isn't, well, what do I need to do to grow this thing? But why isn't the growth happening? And the first step to figuring that out is to diagnose where your own podcast performance is breaking down. And I'm about to take you behind the scenes of something that we have spent almost a year building here at Podlaunch that is going to help you pinpoint exactly what to fix on your show so that you don't waste six months optimizing the wrong thing. Welcome to Insider's Secrets to a Top 100 Podcast. I'm your host, Courtney Elmer. Let's make your podcast binge-worthy. If you were just tuning into the show for the very first time, big huge welcome and hugs to you. Thank you for being here. You are the reason why a podcast. If you're a podcaster or if you're an aspiring podcaster, like you are why this show exists. And if you're a longtime listener, of course, thank you too, because you were the reason that I get out of bed to do this show every single week. We have been in the middle of a micro content series here on the podcast where I have been unpacking the biggest blind spot that I'm seeing in the industry right now that's keeping you from growing. And while, of course, each of these episodes and all the episodes on this show are designed to stand on its own, I do recommend listening to the two episodes prior to this one because they're going to shed a lot of light on the problems that we as podcasters face. Because most podcasters know what they're experiencing. I bet if we were to sit down and have a conversation today on a Zoom call, you would tell me, Courtney, I know what's wrong. Like my downloads haven't changed in the last six months, no matter what I tweak or change on my show. My audience isn't growing. I haven't made a dime from my show yet. You'd be able to tell me all of the what's. Here's what's not working. We could be here for days naming all the things that you know aren't working with your show. The time, the energy, the effort that you're putting in week in and week out creating episodes, the list of things that you've tried to grow your audience and get your show in front of more people, the revenue that you need to make, but that you haven't made, that when you make it, will give you the ROI and the relief you need to see that, yeah, this is working, but that hasn't happened yet, which leaves you questioning whether you should continue. Most podcasters know without a doubt, they know deep in their soul what isn't working. What they don't know is why. So what do they do? They guess. Well, maybe it's my SEO. Well, maybe it's my titles. Well, I heard this podcasting expert say this thing that I hadn't thought about. Well, maybe, you know, maybe it is video. Maybe it's just, I've just been so resistant. I need to add video. Maybe I need to get bigger guests on my show. That's gotta be the answer because they have a big audience. They're gonna share the episodes. Maybe I should be out there guesting on more podcasts. I heard somebody talk about that on a podcast, and that seems like a really good idea. I know I probably should be doing more of that. Maybe I should publish twice a week. I mean, I I email my list. You know, I've got an episode that goes out once a week. Maybe, maybe I need to increase my publication schedule. And it's like all of these things that keep us up at night, every one of those could be the right answer. Every one of them could also waste the next six months of your life. The most painful part of it is that you don't know. You don't know what you don't know. We don't know what we don't know. And this is why podcasting can just feel like such an uphill battle sometimes. Yes, there's joy in it. Yes, we all have had that sensation of excitement and exuberance of like recording the episode that we were really excited to record and that we felt just so aligned with and inflow with, and we get great feedback from. But did it change the trajectory of your show? Did it materially change anything different on your show based on the outcomes that you're looking for that show to give you? And if there's one thing that we know to be true in life, it's that the wrong diagnosis always leads to the wrong prescription. Most podcasters don't have a podcast growth problem. They have a diagnosis problem. And so the problem that we're seeing in the industry right now is that a lot of things are being misdiagnosed. I got multiple emails just this week about the new universal measurement standards that the IAB is proposing for podcasting. There's a board that is talking about, you know, we need this new definition for podcasts now that video is a thing, and all these conversations that are happening around, you know, more transparency, better metrics. And yes, some sort of standard universal metrics would be great across platforms. And what those measurements should be and how they should function are being hotly debated. But at the end of the day, is any of that going to help you grow your podcast? No. Why? Because metrics are downstream. Listener retention is downstream, listener conversion is downstream. Metrics are a trailing indicator of what happened, not why it happened. So we need to look upstream. And the episode right before this one, we talked about why. Because the performance of your show depends on the system that drives it. I want you to think about your podcast for a second like a machine. If you're visual like me, I want you to imagine there's five different gears, kind of like the inner workings of a clock. And in order for that clock to tell you the right time, or in this case, in order for your podcast to give you the results that you're looking to get from it, each of those gears has to be working with precision. They have to be firing at exactly the right time. They have to be turning with exactly the right rotation. Like if one gear isn't firing the way it needs to, not only will your clock not tell time, your clock will be useless. And so right now we're seeing a ton of fragmentation happening in the industry where different people are telling you to fix different parts of your podcast. You've definitely experienced this. Upgrade your production. You need to have high quality production. Write more clickable titles, optimize for SEO, add video, buy this tool to clip your content, use that AI to write your promo posts. But if you don't know which gear is broken, how are you going to know which one is the right one to fix? And more importantly, which one to fix first so that you don't accidentally or inadvertently break more things along the way. So all of this starts with learning how to diagnose the right problem. You can't fix the right gear until you know which one is broken. And this is where most podcast audits you see today go wrong because they almost always evaluate pieces in isolation. And worse, they give you surface level recommendations. This is why I stopped offering podcast audits. Because inevitably someone would come to me saying my podcast isn't growing, and they would ask for an audit, and I would run an 82-point diagnostic on their show, which would take three days worth of intensely focused work, plus a 90-minute call where I would reveal the findings and we'd unpack everything. And after presenting all of this to a client, they'd say, Well, I don't think I need to change that. Or, okay, well, I'll I'll update my cover art, but they would ignore the rest of the gears in the system that I was telling them were misfiring. And you know that my goal for you and all of the content that I share is that it is my job to help you make better decisions as a podcast host. Because these then affect the decisions that your listeners make about your show, which then affects your podcast performance. And while I can't make those decisions for you, I can teach you why they matter. And I can teach you how to make the right ones based on your show goals. And I can teach you how to pinpoint where your performance is breaking down right now in your show so you can get the system back online and growing in the right direction. And I can give you the right questions to ask. In fact, that is my promise to you on this show is to help make you a better host. And as podcast hosts, in this podcasting game together, if there is one piece of advice that I could give you, it's to encourage you to get better at exercising your inner skeptic when you hear the next big company telling you the next big thing that you quote unquote need, which, spoiler, is usually only going to focus on one piece of your podcast, not the system as a whole. And so anytime a cold pitch from a new podcasting tool, company, person, whatever hits your inbox, the question you need to ask is, well, how do I know that's actually the thing preventing my show from performing? Ask that question before you spend time fixing things. Get the right diagnosis before you get the prescription. And sometimes that might mean getting a second opinion. Can you imagine going to the doctor and you tell them, well, my knee hurts? And immediately they're like, all right, surgery, you need to have surgery. It has to happen this week. They haven't given you an exam. They haven't done any imaging, they haven't asked you what happened. You'd probably find another doctor. We had a family member who had a similar experience of this recently, where they were like, oh, this is what's going on. You need this procedure. And this family member was like, excuse me, what? Like, wait a minute. And they went out and got a second opinion. And this is how most podcast advice works. You mention one symptom, and immediately someone out there prescribes, oh, well, you need to start a YouTube. Oh, well, you need to improve your podcast SEO. And look, you know that I love podcast SEO. You know that it's great, but is it the thing you need to optimize first? That's the question. And a lot of times, if I'm looking at a show, podcast SEO is not the first thing that I recommend. It's to look at that show holistically and to see, okay, where is the performance breaking down? We might optimize SEO at some point, but it's not always the first thing. But yet that's what we have happening in the industry right now. A lot of prescribing going on. Buy this mic, launch a newsletter, upgrade your performance, get the right strategy, have a strategist help you with your show. And the problem is not that these things are bad, they're not inherently bad. So please don't mistake me when I say that these things are good things. The problem is that no one has diagnosed whether they're solving the right problem for your show. And this is the difference between symptom-based thinking and systems-based thinking. Symptom-based thinking asks, well, what's the symptom and how do we treat it? What's the fastest, most effective way to treat the symptom? Systems-based thinking asks, what's the upstream dysfunction that created that symptom in the first place? And this is the difference between looking at one symptom in isolation and then asking how the whole system is functioning together and whether a malfunction or a misfunction may have contributed to that symptom. Or said in plain English, it's the difference between understanding what's happening on your show and why it's happening to begin with. Remember, why, not what. And it goes without saying the diagnosis has to come before the prescription. But you also have to make sure that it's the right diagnosis. Otherwise, the prescription is just going to waste your time and it'll waste your money and it'll probably create more problems along the way. If a doctor prescribes surgery, when really PT could have fixed the issue, then the surgery might create a lot of additional problems. It might solve the problem temporarily, it might fix the symptom for a while. Or vice versa. Maybe there was something, I don't know, a tear in your meniscus that your knee was hurting, and they did some imaging, and you really do need surgery, and PT would have only made the problem worse. So for the last year, I've been asking some different questions than the rest of the industry is asking. And behind the scenes here at Pod Launch, we've been building a way to answer the question that every podcaster asks eventually, which is where is my show actually breaking down? And more importantly, why? And so the answer is the podcast health score. And its purpose is really simple. It's to help you identify where your podcast performance is actually breaking down before you invest time or money fixing the wrong thing. And today we are opening it up in beta for you. I am so excited. This is this is something that I have been waiting to do for a very long time now. In fact, some of you have been on our wait list for a while. And this is one of those projects that inevitably, when you start something new, there's going to be unforeseen delays. And there have been many unforeseen delays in getting this set up. But ultimately, there are five core gears that have to work together for your podcast to perform the way that you want it to. And the good news is once you know which gear or gears, because sometimes it's multiple, which ones are misfiring and why they're misfiring, then you can stop guessing and start making better decisions as a host. And then as we have been unpacking in this mini-series, those better decisions that you make as a host are going to influence better listener decisions, which is going to create better podcast performance. And that is how you move from hoping your podcast grows to engineering performance that you can predict. So right now, the way that this is set up is very simple. You'll answer a series of questions about your show. And in return, you'll get a personalized report that identifies where your podcast performance is most likely breaking down and what to prioritize first. And so my vision for this is for eventually for this to become a live dashboard where you can log in anytime and instantly see the health of your podcast, track your podcast and your show's performance over time, and get targeted action steps so you can know exactly where to focus your effort next. But Evergreat Tools starts somewhere. And I'm sitting here going, this is got, we've got to get this out. Like we have to get this in your hands. So this is why we decided to open it up in beta first. And so it might be a little clunky. You know, bear with us as you go through it if you find bugs or things like that. Like please let us know because this is, we need podcasters to take this assessment because this is how we're gonna learn. And as a listener of this show, you're gonna get early access. And in return, you're gonna be helping us shape the future of this tool just by taking it so that we can continue refining it and improving it before we fully release it so that it can be as useful as possible for the entire podcasting community. And look, if you believe in this work and you believe that this kind of practical education is worth supporting, I'd love to invite you to become a founding supporter of the show. We're gonna break down in a second what these five gears are. But one of the reasons that I have spent the last six plus years studying podcast performance is because I believe that education, particularly podcast education, should actually help you grow your show. It shouldn't just send you off in multiple directions, chasing your tail, chasing shiny objects, trying things that ultimately don't work. And so if this is something that you believe in too, then I invite you to consider becoming a founding supporter of the show right here inside of Apple Podcasts. Or you can click the link below in the show notes that says support the show if you listen on a different app. And when you do, you're gonna get early access to new episodes plus behind-the-scenes updates as we continue building all of this out together. Because when it comes to the five gears that the podcast health score actually measures, there are five systems for your podcast that all have to be functioning together in order to help drive the performance of your show. And here they are in order: your messaging system, your positioning system, your marketing system, your monetization system, and your measurement system. And these are really important because messaging answers, why should anybody care? Can people immediately understand why this show matters, why it's relevant to them? Your positioning system answers, is this show positioned for the right audience to attract the right listener? Why this show instead of another? Why should they pick this one? This is ultimately going to determine the decisions you make about what you talk about, who you talk about it to, how you package it, how you differentiate it. Your marketing system answers, well, how do people find the show? And more importantly, are the right people finding it? And if not, why not? This determines where your audience is discovering you and which marketing efforts are working for your show, which ones are right for your show, which ones are not right for your show, and which ones you should continue or not continue to invest your time and energy into. Then your monetization system answers, well, what happens once a listener trusts you? Is the show creating the outcomes that you want? Are you cashing a check from your show if that is the goal? And if not, why not? And this is also going to determine what monetization model is best for your show. How do your listeners become customers or supporters of the show? Is your podcast creating the ROI that you want to see? And then downstream of all of that is your measurement system. Everything flows downstream to the metrics. And the metrics then help you make better upstream decisions. So what's the system telling you? Are your systems healthy? Can you accurately diagnose where performance is breaking down? Do you know what to improve next? How is this going to impact future decisions that you make for your show based on evidence instead of assumptions? And if you want a visual reference for all of this, go check out my Substack, Courtney Elmer. And the order of these systems is intentional because each one builds on the one before it. Strong marketing won't fix a show that has weak messaging. You can't monetize an audience if you're attracting the wrong audience to begin with. Or think about it this way: as a host, you shouldn't be asking, how do I market and promote this show until you've answered, why should anybody care? And one of the things that I am the most excited about, in fact, if there was anything that I'm the most excited about, it's this. It's the fact that this is going to take so much of the decision fatigue out of podcasting. You know, maybe you've spent the last six months rewriting episode titles because someone told you titles were your problem, when in reality your marketing system is what's holding your show back from growing. Or maybe you've been focused on SEO, which is not wrong. It's a great thing to do. But are you tackling it in the right order? Because if people are not coming back after they listen, then it's not going to matter how many people you help find your podcast. And this is not stuff that gets talked about, but there is a real cost to guessing. And if you've ever stared at your analytics dashboard wondering, oh my gosh, should I keep putting my time into this thing because it's not generating ROI for me, then I know you felt that. So if you would like to be one of the first podcasters ever, ah, so exciting, to take this podcast health score during beta, you're gonna find the link below in the show notes. I would genuinely love your feedback on this because I believe that podcast performance can become far more predictable than it is today. And this is one small concrete step toward making that possible. Because once you know which gears aren't firing properly, well, then the next natural question becomes okay, this is great. This is amazing insight. Now, what do I need to do to fix it? And the podcast health score is going to tell you where to start by helping you diagnose where your performance is breaking down and what to prioritize first. But a diagnosis is only half the equation. And a prescription only works if you actually follow it. And that's why everything we've learned from six plus years of working hands-on with hundreds of podcasters and launching over 70 top 100 shows and investing more than 30,000 hours studying what drives podcast performance has led to something that we're building in tandem with this for you, called the Pod Launch OS. Because once you know what to fix, the only question left is how. So in the next episode, I've got a very special guest joining me who is eight years old and who is going to interview me about what the Pod Launch OS is, why we're building it, and how it is designed to help you build a show that listeners choose, trust, and buy from. All that's coming up next to help you make your podcast bingeworthy.